Secondary Sex Characteristics

[botias]

Is it different for flat-chested women to want bigger boobs than for flat-chested transgender men to want bigger boobs? It seems like wanting something different than your genes dictate is... wanting something different than your genes dictate.

Comments

[elynne.livejournal.com]

It seems like wanting something different than your genes dictate is... wanting something different than your genes dictate.

I am astounded at your powers of observation and deduction. ;D

Meh, I dunno. I think that wanting bigger boobs in general is *ppthptt*. But then, I have big boobs, so I'm not exactly one to talk.

I do have a bit of a - I don't think it's a "rant," but definitely a bit of seriously chewy (and probably crunchy) thought-train specifically about male-to-female transfolk. Which isn't to say that I disapprove of them, or don't like them... but it's a bit more complicated, and has to do with gender politics, and a lot of people would probably jump all over me if I ever did write it out, so enh.

[botias.livejournal.com]

do have a bit of a - I don't think it's a "rant," but definitely a bit of seriously chewy (and probably crunchy) thought-train specifically about male-to-female transfolk.

Huh, I don't know any transgender folks, and further know pretty much nothing of transgender culture from hearsay. I have to admit, I figured you would be all for it. I suppose one is probably getting into dangerous territory when one purports to dress 'like a woman'.

[elynne.livejournal.com]

I have no problem with the theory. For all intents and purposes, I'm a cross-dresser; most of the clothes I wear were made for men. Guys wearing skirts are pretty "enh" in Seattle.

Okay, here's my beef: men and women have different social patterns in life, probably due to how our culture raises people, but it's kind of hard to separate the background from the genes when it's illegal to remove infants from their parents and raise them in "controlled settings". Men and women behave differently. Women who become men tend to act like shy, vaguely awkward, vaguely feminine men; I've known plenty of men who act like that, in fact that's the type I'm most attracted to. Men who become women tend to be... aggressive, in ways that women generally just aren't. Generally, women don't invade personal space (unless they're flirting); women don't interrupt conversations; women don't try to be the loudest talker in the room. These are generalizations, and it's hard to get the whole image across.

I've met... at least three (maybe four) post-op male-to-female transfolk, one pre-op who cross-dressed and planned on making the switch, and one who abruptly dissapeared and reappeared as a female (to the vast surprise of some and the vast lack of surprise of others). It would be overly simplistic to say that male-to-female transfolk have fetishized the "feminine ideal" to the point where they want to become female, but there is a certain element of that involved.

On the other hand, I don't think I've ever met a female-to-male transperson offline. I have a couple on my f'list, and I know some folks who have talked about it with varying levels of seriousness, but I don't know any personally, so I don't have a basis for comparison in that direction.

It's hard to explain, and it's not exactly something I can witter about casually in my own journal without almost certainly setting off a giant keg of flames. :P

[elynne.livejournal.com]

It would be overly simplistic to say that male-to-female transfolk have fetishized the "feminine ideal" to the point where they want to become female, but there is a certain element of that involved.

I will also note that, of the m-t-f transfolk I've known, there is a definite trend towards "becoming lesbian", or being bisexual with a strong leaning in the girl-on-girl direction. Which raises the additional ickyness of "I want to be in that special exclusive club! They won't let me in the way I am, so I'll change the way I am so I can get into that club!"

No, really, I'll stop now. :P

[botias.livejournal.com]

"becoming lesbian"

WTF? That kind of boggles my brain and I have to admit it seems... huh. I wonder if many such folks are men. Very feminine men, attracted to women, only attractive to lesbians, but unable to 'enter the club' without becoming a 'woman'. I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body. *shakes head* Everybody's got their own row to hoe, I suppose. I'm grateful my sexuality is relatively straight-forward.

I know it would suck to identify as a woman, be attracted to men, and have male genitalia. I understand that some men are so homophobic that they will become violent towards someone who unexpectedly turns out to have a penis.

I saw a little boy on a documentary about transsexuality that was very feminine. Liked fashion dolls, wearing pretty, feminine clothes, dancing around. I felt really, really sad for him, because his culture is likely to make his life very difficult, he might even be killed for being this way. :(

[botias.livejournal.com]

Glad to provide an alternative locale. :)

I'm only really familiar with transfolk from documentaries and talk shows. As such, the f-t-m folks seemed quite confident, being a self-selected group willing to go on camera. Trans-sexuality is still one area where there is almost no acceptance yet in mainstream culture. I think it would be hard to be a psychologically or socially healthy transgendered person.

It's funny, I was watching Kinky Boots which is probably the Disney version of trans-sexuality. But at the end, when all these men were strutting their stuff on the catwalk... I thought they were really hot. The way they were taking this foreign thing, this forbidden thing, this dangerous thing, and owning it. I don't think I would have recognized it a few years ago. Teh Internets has corrupted me. Darn you Al Gore! *shakes fist*

[botias.livejournal.com]

Oh and boobies. :P