Grrr Yes I Need to Move On

[botias]

Did not Joss himself write or creatively oversee a Buffy episode where a man is tortured terribly and then coerced into sexual acts under false pretenses? Is this not the same theme as Captivity? Is this not equally horrible?

Comments

[botias.livejournal.com]

He didn't have a soul, so he didn't matter.

Actually, the man I am referring to is Giles in Season 2. He was tortured by Angelus, and then was coerced into baring his soul to, and into making out with, Drusilla, believing her to be his lost love. I'm not even getting into vampires; I certainly don't plan to mention Spike's shirtless torture sessions in season 7 in which the torturer makes a specific point of saying Spike's sexyness makes the torture that much more fun.

Everyone knows the way to get equality is to debase and brutalise men as we have been debased and brutalised.

I wish to go on record as saying I would not wish anyone, male or female, to be debased or brutalized. I just think it is human nature to be aroused by sex and violence and sexualized violence. I'm not going to beat anyone up for writing or enjoying fic that plays to that. Nor will I make TV shows that thoroughly take advantage of that human propensity and then turn around and flame other people for making movies that do the same.

I'm a big fan of free speech. I actually breathe a sigh of relief when people are clearly free to create art that most people think should be burned.

I do think the day of equality between the sexes is closer when women are not lumped in with children and animals as groups that require special protection, when it's not less OK to torture a woman than it is a man.

[diachrony.livejournal.com]

I knew immediately you were referring to Giles.

Okay ... I haven't googled up this "Captivity" movie so I don't know what this is all about, but I am assuming it involves men torturing a nubile young woman who is displayed in such manner to sexually arouse males in the audience?

I see this on practically every single episode of CSI, Law&Order, Medium, et al. on TV ~ victims are usually women and almost invariably "sexually attractive" and their murdered corpses are shown in a titillating fashion.

I'm not really sure I see how Angelus' torturing of Giles compares since that scene was clearly not geared toward sexually titillating the viewers.

(Or maybe I'm just not perverted kinky enough to see it that way?)

[botias.livejournal.com]

You have a very good point. Whedon does not overtly sexualize his torture, though I think I could make a case that Whedon does not shy away from sexualizing other kinds of violence. Giles' psychological torture is certainly sexual and emotional. I would argue that Spike's torture by the First was sexualized, as well as his self-immolation in the church. But these are fairly isolated examples. I feel I should confess that most everything Spike does seems sexual to me, so my opionions must be considered in that light. I would say his fight with Nikki was meant to be sexy, as well as his wrassling with Buffy in the same episode, not to mention Spike and Buffy's various rather violent sexual encounters.

I can certainly understand the viewpoint that sexuality should be viewed with reverence and/or that one should never combine it with violence. I can also understand the viewpoint that humanity should be viewed with reverence, and people should not indulge that part of themselves that is titillated by violence and/or death in any way.

But I don't think people that disagree with those viewpoints are necessarily bad or violent people, or that it necessarily demonstrates hatred and contempt of the sexual object. I do think that ME's work uses violence and death to excite, however, unlike those other examples you mentioned like CSI which I will not watch for that very reason, there's a whole lot more to BtVS than that.