(no subject)

[botias]

I often read sympathy for Spike about the way others treat him without any reference as to why the Scoobies or Buffy might reasonably find him disgusting, like the fact that he is a sadist, rapist, liar, stalker, drunkard, thief and murderer.

I often read about how Spike 'fixes' broken people who then abandon him. Spike is seemingly attracted to the broken, yet another less then stellar quality and with predictably poor results, but I've not known him to fix anyone.

I encounter Spuffy fans who are actually just Spike fans. They hate, hate, hate Buffy for abusing Spike, but Spike wants her, therefore he shall have her. I've definitely gone through my own phases where I wanted to feed our heroine to the pretty vampire.

Why am I a Spike fan? Why do I ship Spuffy? Some days I'm not sure. But I have dark suspicions.

Comments

[owenthurman.livejournal.com]

I don't recall vampires doing good or restraining themselves from evil except where it would ultimately gratify themselves or preserve them

Seldom do any of the humans either. If you are suggesting that Harmony at WR&H or Spike between S5 and S6 are motivated solely selfishly then your standards for selfishness would drag in all the humans on the show except Buffy.

What I wrote about the soul-having vs. not is based on what I've heard Joss say his intentions were

Yes, I think he did say so.

But now that the show is over, Joss really has no more authority to say what it means than any random man on the street. There is the text and that is all there is. Whatever meaning there is is in the text.

And the text doesn't argue that vampires cannot reform unless they get souls.

...souls of those who become vengeance...

Taking the life and soul of the vengence demon was done as a choice by Anya. You have to wank pretty far out to suggest that means anything other than that vengence demons have souls more or less like humans. D'Hoffryn selects humans who are already willing to hurt others over vengence (Selfless, Something Blue) so losing the soul should not be important to do the job.

[botias.livejournal.com]

the text doesn't argue that vampires cannot reform unless they get souls

*shrug* We'll just have to agree to disagree. Certainly the text seems to argue that you shouldn't hold your breath or date them. I'm pretty practical, that's what matters to me.

Easy on the accusations of wanking! I don't remember the episode all that well. I have to say that if Anya was doing that stuff while possessing the maximum conscience that she will ever possess, than she qualifies as one scary lady. :)

[owenthurman.livejournal.com]

Certainly the text seems to argue that you shouldn't hold your breath or date them.

Pretty bad odds there even with the souls. Humans are enough trouble.

if Anya was doing that stuff while...

One of the joys of Selfless was that all the supposed demony and ex-demony behaviors of Anya were already present her first time around as a human.

Easy on the accusations of wanking

Sorry. Didn't mean to be mean.

[botias.livejournal.com]

I don't know, didn't they have human Anya loving bunnies to bits and talking about helping her neighbors without receiving goods and services in return?

Sorry. Didn't mean to be mean.

I've called off the hit men. ;)

[owenthurman.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Anya had her bunny fixation (breding dozens of them) and her political-economic radicalism right from the human days.

Sure the focus of the fixation (from adoration to fear) changed and the radical politics changed (gift economy to commmunism later finally to capitalism) but the underlying Anya was the same.

And she talks too openly about sex and takes everything so literally that people find it offputting right from the start. It's funny in reference to the scoobs (and viewers) long running assumption that all those quirks are fallout from her demony days.